Correspondence - We All Are Waiting for ... What?

Hi Joseph,

Regarding Zion, one thing that I am beginning to believe is that no one, right now, needs to run faster than he has strength and that everything is to be done in order.  This needs to be remembered by those that are zealous.  Giving too much when one is poor or middle class is over zealous. With that said, if we all felt part of a united cause that honestly wanted to be all in common (no poor among us, equal, etc.) we would all re-prioritize our spending and time.  What holds us back? Alma felt that those wearing fine twine costly apparel had not caught the vision.  This (no vision people) also has a dampening effect on the rest of the believers: "If they can have it (not share) why can't I?"  When that same group mocks the humble and is into envying others in the same group as they walk in the pride of their hearts, what are the humble followers to do?  They, according to Alma, are to take it on cheek.  Stay humble and meek.  Then who is supposed to correct the matter?  The leader.  It is always the leader, the judge.  With this said, what is the difference between this car or that car, this house or that house, this nice thing and that nice thing?  For the middle class it isn't much.  Everybody gets good fortune (a new car) at different times.  It is hard to judge righteously.  To be meek is not to judge.  If I get a nice thing, do I want everybody to judge me?  As our hearts change, as we are taught Zion, as we feel part of a unified effort, we will do better at doing the right thing.

Scott

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Joseph Balden <josephbalden@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice,  God is not a micro manager....  I think that some peoples faith relies on being told what to do.  If they had to make a choice they fail or just go back to waiting to be told exactly what to do.  We even feed off each other to know what the "normal" person in the ward does.  I wonder if no one had mediocre examples, what everyone's definition of Christan would be, and if they would then live it.  Question is how does one personally muster up the effort to 'take Zion seriously' when it is not an exact definition of something we are told to do.

Don't cry because its over. Smile Because it happened
-- Dr. Seuss

Joseph Balden
801-735-2163

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Greenscooter <srnelson1513@gmail.com> wrote:

I finished listening to one of the podcast on race from the Maxwell Institute.  Fascinating.  A big mess of views and theories and possibly mistakes (Kimball 1968).

Final views: God allows mistakes to be made.  God is not a micro manager.  People become so convinced that things are based on God when they are really man’s ideas that they become self-righteous and begin to persecute another race.  We become inherently racist.  God permits Man to make mistakes (lost pages Martin Harris, Israel wanting a King, J.S. with Kirtland anti Banking society).  Racism was probably a mistake.  Orson Pratt said that agency is all important, multi-generational cursing can’t be right.

The lady said, I don’t believe in a perfect gospel with perfect understanding suddenly bestowed on Joseph Smith.  It comes line up line and precept upon precept.

We are all uninformed.  We all seem to believe that what we understand about the world around us and neatly wrapped up Mormonism is all there is,  I know I am speaking for myself.  When P. Uchtdorf says that true Christians are having visions, revelations, dreams, signs, wonders and miracles, most of us should pause and consider whether or not we a true Christians (humble followers of Christ).  For some reason I thought that only very special people has signs, wonders and miracles happening in their life.  I realize now that it is the norm.  This is the separation of the wheat and the tares.  This the separation of the ten virgins.  This is the good man of the house caught unaware.  This is the division of the Saints.  Either we have the recipe right in our lives or we don’t.  It is pretty simple.  When one is granted awareness that these things (signs, wonders and miracles – 2 Nephi 26:13 and Jacob 4:6) are needed, that they follow faith and that they are not happening in his or her life – that person can then begin to pray to God with all sincerity and with real intent (Uchtdorf, October Conference, 2014) and receive an answer.  But the continuing answer is continuing evidences that make our faith unshaken, which hope maketh an anchor to our souls (Ether12:4).  If we have this reoccurring in our lives, we quit worrying about the apostasy of others and what they say.  We know that the gospel and the Church truly bring a delicious feast (2 Nephi 9:51) and has undeniably left its mark on our hearts.

I like the D. Todd Christopherson quote.  

"it will be necessary (1) to become unified in one heart and one mind; (2) to become, individually and collectively, a holy people; and (3) to care for the poor and needy with such effectiveness that we eliminate poverty among us. We cannot wait until Zion comes for these things to happen-Zion will come only as they happen" (D. Todd Christopherson, October Conference, 2008)

Everybody who actually takes Zion seriously is waiting for somebody else to do something bigger than our average charity.  Perhaps our average charity is enough at this time.  If the General Authorities want more from the Church, then teach us.  A few quotes, here and there will not suffice. (Of course, this is my opinion only and I could be wrong).  I believe that giving us a  higher goal (unified, temporally equal, no poor among us) is the best thing the leaders could do.  But, the Holy Ghost will have to impress upon the leaders that it is time.  And timing is everything.  Could you imagine all the false American and Mormon traditions that would need to be jettisoned?  I believe it would take five years of concerted effort on the part of General Authorities to get all-in-common-ism galvanized in the minds of the listening Saints.  Apostasy would be rampant.  Gifts of the Spirit would also be rampant.  That would be a wonderful time.  The Saints would have a collective focus again.

--
Posted By Greenscooter to Scott Nelson Blog - Unrefined at 3/31/2015 10:17:00 AM 

Correspondence - The Changing Church

Craig,

I dropped Denver.  He appears to have gone apostate.  Perhaps he was always apostate.  I don’t know. 

Here’s what I believe is substantive: If my faith and testimony are evidenced by the spiritual things happening in my life, I then don’t care what malcontents think.  It doesn't really matter.  If signs, wonders and miracles are following my faith why would I doubt the gospel and the Church?  People bothered by the Church seem to have missed the mark.  Evidences of faith indicate that one has faith or is trying to have faith (Jacob 4:6, 2 Nephi 26:13).  If one is discontent, ask God what you’re doing wrong.  Ask God to order and maintain your life.  Be meek and humble.  Be positive, hopeful, kind and loving.  Discontent people are not that.

The Church is changing.  I believe for the good.  Those fifteen at the top have power and authority to make whatever changes are necessary for the Church to progress.  My intellectual friends will say,"it doesn't conform to Joseph Smith, the Apostles are changing doctrine".  My zealot friends will say, "the Church is following the world, they are all going to hell".  My liberal friends will say, "The Church needs to go further and offer women the Priesthood and seal gay people".  My NRA Captain Moroni Warrior Cult friends will say, "The government is going to round us up!  The Constitution is not being followed!  When they declare martial law, they'll have to tear my gun out of my cold, dead hands" (actual quote)".  The humble followers of Christ say, "Stay calm, stand in holy places, let the Spirit guide, fear not".

Everybody (but the Humble Followers) have some level of ..... mental illness?  Nibley thought the same thing was happening to the Jews in Christ's time under the subjugation of Romans.  Many Jews were going crazy.  "We are the chosen people", "The Messiah will come and destroy the bad guys", "If I keep every rule, God is with me (Pharisees)", "Let's attack the Romans at night (Zealots)", "Let's depart into the wilderness to avoid everything (Essenes)".

Remember, there's just as many stories of willful, humble subjugation (Christ's teachings, Limhi, Helam, Anti Nephi Lehi's, Ester, primitive Christians, etc.)  in the scriptures as there are stories of fighting for one's liberty.  He who fights by the sword (in the last days) will die by the sword.  Where was the Captain Moroni archetype in 1913?

Love,

Scott

From: Scott Nelson [mailto:srnelson1513@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 11:24 AM
To: Nelson, Scott R.
Subject: Fwd: [Scott Nelson Blog - Unrefined] Thoughts on

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Craig Nelson <craignelson8@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Scott Nelson Blog - Unrefined] Thoughts on
To: Greenscooter <srnelson1513@gmail.com>

Scott,

Thank you for the blog.  I agree, especially about "eliminate poverty among us."  The only problem is that some people will try to "eliminate" them instead of helping and serving them.

What's happening on the Denver S. front.  I keep hearing comments but no real substance.  For someone that did not want to start a church, he has done a pretty good job at starting a church [fellowship].

Thanks,

Craig


480-497-0003
CraigNelson8@gmail.com

Thoughts on Race, All in Common

I finished listening to one of the podcast on race from the Maxwell Institute.  Fascinating.  A big mess of views and theories and possibly mistakes (Kimball 1968).

Final views: God allows mistakes to be made.  God is not a micro manager.  People become so convinced that things are based on God when they are really man’s ideas that they become self-righteous and begin to persecute another race.  We become inherently racist.  God permits Man to make mistakes (lost pages Martin Harris, Israel wanting a King, J.S. with Kirtland anti Banking society).  Racism was probably a mistake.  Orson Pratt said that agency is all important, multi-generational cursing can’t be right.

The lady said, I don’t believe in a perfect gospel with perfect understanding suddenly bestowed on Joseph Smith.  It comes line up line and precept upon precept.

We are all uninformed.  We all seem to believe that what we understand about the world around us and neatly wrapped up Mormonism is all there is,  I know I am speaking for myself.  When P. Uchtdorf says that true Christians are having visions, revelations, dreams, signs, wonders and miracles, most of us should pause and consider whether or not we a true Christians (humble followers of Christ).  For some reason I thought that only very special people has signs, wonders and miracles happening in their life.  I realize now that it is the norm.  This is the separation of the wheat and the tares.  This the separation of the ten virgins.  This is the good man of the house caught unaware.  This is the division of the Saints.  Either we have the recipe right in our lives or we don’t.  It is pretty simple.  When one is granted awareness that these things (signs, wonders and miracles – 2 Nephi 26:13 and Jacob 4:6) are needed, that they follow faith and that they are not happening in his or her life – that person can then begin to pray to God with all sincerity and with real intent (Uchtdorf, October Conference, 2014) and receive an answer.  But the continuing answer is continuing evidences that make our faith unshaken, which hope maketh an anchor to our souls (Ether12:4).  If we have this reoccurring in our lives, we quit worrying about the apostasy of others and what they say.  We know that the gospel and the Church truly bring a delicious feast (2 Nephi 9:51) and has undeniably left its mark on our hearts.

I like the D. Todd Christopherson quote.  

"it will be necessary (1) to become unified in one heart and one mind; (2) to become, individually and collectively, a holy people; and (3) to care for the poor and needy with such effectiveness that we eliminate poverty among us. We cannot wait until Zion comes for these things to happen-Zion will come only as they happen" (D. Todd Christopherson, October Conference, 2008)

Everybody who actually takes Zion seriously is waiting for somebody else to do something bigger than our average charity.  Perhaps our average charity is enough at this time.  If the General Authorities want more from the Church, then teach us.  A few quotes, here and there will not suffice. (Of course, this is my opinion only and I could be wrong).  I believe that giving us a  higher goal (unified, temporally equal, no poor among us) is the best thing the leaders could do.  But, the Holy Ghost will have to impress upon the leaders that it is time.  And timing is everything.  Could you imagine all the false American and Mormon traditions that would need to be jettisoned?  I believe it would take five years of concerted effort on the part of General Authorities to get all-in-common-ism galvanized in the minds of the listening Saints.  Apostasy would be rampant.  Gifts of the Spirit would also be rampant.  That would be a wonderful time.  The Saints would have a collective focus again.

A Penny for a Day

I watched the new Bible Video on Laborers in the Vineyard. I could not understand it. So I went to Elder Holland's talk (2012) and found some insights.

This is a parable about jealousy. The first laborers, that worked all day were contracted for a penny. The last laborers didn’t know what they were going to get when they went out. At the end of the day the Lord of the vineyard paid them all a penny. The first laborers were upset that they had to work all day. The Lord of the Vineyard asks, "Why should you be jealous because I choose to be kind? Being kind is good thing." In those days a penny is a day’s labor. In the morning, the first laborers were so happy to get that penny to feed their families. The last laborers were over looked over and over again. They weren't going to be able to feed their families. The ones that weren’t chosen at all - now they didn’t get anything.

So why do we feel envious when someone else gets an unexpected blessing or special recognition? We are not in a race against each other. We are in a race against sin and envy is a most universal sin.

So we need to stop pouting, coveting or tearing others down because it does not elevate our standing. We are just unhappy. We should be grateful that God is kind. It is a happy way to live.

Elder Holland then says:

My beloved brothers and sisters, what happened in this story at 9:00 or noon or 3:00 is swept up in the grandeur of the universally generous payment at the end of the day. The formula of faith is to hold on, work on, see it through, and let the distress of earlier hours—real or imagined—fall away in the abundance of the final reward. Don’t dwell on old issues or grievances—not toward yourself nor your neighbor nor even, I might add, toward this true and living Church. The majesty of your life, of your neighbor’s life, and of the gospel of Jesus Christ will be made manifest at the last day, even if such majesty is not always recognized by everyone in the early going. So don’t hyperventilate about something that happened at 9:00 in the morning when the grace of God is trying to reward you at 6:00 in the evening—whatever your labor arrangements have been through the day.

The story is a story about God’s mercy and goodness, especially when we didn’t expect it or deserve it. It’s a story about forgiveness and the Atonement of Jesus Christ. It’s a story of not looking back. We arrive at this faith at different times in our lives. Good things like tender mercies happen to us but happen at different times.

http://scottnelsonunrefined.blogspot.com/
http://greenscootersimplelife.blogspot.com/
http://greenscooter1513.blogspot.com/

My Soul Delighteth

I was reading the scriptures this morning and found these verses in 2 Nephi 11:

5 And also my soul delighteth in the covenants of the Lord which he hath made to our fathers; yea, my soul delighteth in his grace, and in his justice, and power, and mercy in the great and eternal plan of deliverance from death.
6 And my soul delighteth in proving unto my people that save Christ should come all men must perish.
7 For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time.

I like verse 5 because he delights in grace and mercy. Why would I delight in grace unless it was active in my life where I continue to sin?



I like verse 6 because I like proving that all men must perish without Christ.





I like verse 7 because it shows the relationship between God and creation. However creation happened it had active involvement with God. If not, the atheists are right. No need for God. Non-God involved evolution undermines everything (no God, no Christ, no Justice, no Mercy, no right or wrong….). God involved creation is very important. If not, everything unravels. Satan knows this.

Thoughts on Snuffer

I just read the stake confidential letter regarding Denver Snuffer’s writing.  It is interesting.  Most of it is what bothered me about his book, Pass the Heavenly Gift.  I am surprised that the author sometimes seems to take the position that the Pharisees did  with Christ.  That is my only concern when I read it .  We all need to watch ourselves so pride doesn’t enter in.  Denver disparages the church many times in his book.  He can’t seem to differentiate the sinful acts of members and the Church.  I believe the church and all the scriptures still point us to Christ.  I believe we can still progress.  I don’t believe the Church is barring anyone from getting into heaven.  I believe the Church still believes in the reception of the Second Comforter.  I don’t believe the Second Comforter will tell people to leave the Church.  We all need to be receptive to the Holy Ghost first.

It was an interesting read.  I have moved away from Snuffer.

Elder Ballard in the September Ensign says, "Do not spend time trying to overhaul or adjust God’s plan. We do not have time for that. It is a pointless exercise to try to determine how to organize the Lord’s Church differently. The Lord is at the head of this Church, and we all follow His direction. Both men and women need increased faith and testimony of the life and the Atonement of our Lord Jesus Christ and increased knowledge of His teachings and doctrine. We need clear minds so that the Holy Ghost can teach us what to do and what to say. We need to think straight in this world of confusion and disregard for the things of God."

Negative Thinking

As I read the scriptures I end up doing self assessments to see where I stand.  I then think about how I can improve one of the areas where I am deficient – knowing that this is fairly difficult since it is impossible to make a goal in the future regarding something that comes upon you in the present (be it in the future).  Character change (or Christ-like attribute development) is difficult because the negative thing happens in the moment and catches you unaware.  The only correcting influence is remembering the Savior at all times so you can’t be caught unaware.  A watered down version of remembering is to just be self-aware that you have fallen into a negative attribute (depression, hate, anger, impatience, etc.) and just stare at the negative thinking going on in your head.  Watch it, it is not your true self.  It is pretending to be you but it isn’t (why else could you just be observing IT).  It is your ego or natural man trying to take over.  By not identifying with it but just observing it, it start to shrink.  Over the course of a few weeks it disappears.  Just by observing it.  This is called watching yourself (Mosiah 4:30) in the scriptures.

Since negative thinking (the opposite or charity thinking) is just in your head, why not give it to Christ knowing that he suffered for all that?  Perhaps casting one’s burdens on to Christ is what is meant initially when the scriptures say to come unto Christ.  Why hold thoughts and emotions in your head when you have a being that is willing to accept them since he paid for them.  Perhaps negative thinking is sin and the way to get rid of it is to believe that there really is a God who can relieve you of them.

Since negative ways of thinking are bad habits, they will come back.  They are old friends but really demons.  It takes practice believing that because of Christ all feelings of shame (regrets of the past, not good enough now) and fear (of the future) can be taken by him simply by giving them to Him over and over again.  You can then carry a song away (Hymn 124).  Just believe.

Nowhere in the scriptures does it say we have to perform some great act to get to heaven.  But, I do believe that God will open doors and provide the way for each of us to fulfill our particular missions in life if we have been constantly relying on His grace and merits up to that point.  God opens the doors, we do not. 

The way is EASY for the person with charity.  He is constantly in a peaceful, relaxed, happy state.  He can’t offend anyone.  That is when God can use you.  You can’t be confounded (because you have no triggers).  Now that state upsets nasty people.

Whenever I feel like my Patriarchal Blessing has been thwarted (by my acts, or how I was raised), I give it all to God.  I have to.  It would be unmerciful (which is sin) not to.